14 Messages
Digest #3138
Messages
I'm been putting together a spreadsheet to compare ETFs and CEFs using Morningstar criteria such as % Total Return YTD (Data Element 4856), % Rank in Cat/Ind (DE 4880), YTD Return vs Cat/Ind (DE 4864) and 3-year alpha (DE 4679).
I noticed a mismatch between the numbers displayed in my Spreadsheet versus those displayed in the Morningstar site.
Then, thinking that the Spreadsheet could be using cache rather than the latest site, I used =smfForceRecalculation macro to refresh it. The same mismatch remained.
All of those data elements were substantially different. For instance, DE 4880 in the site: 30, in the spreadsheet: 0, 4864 in the site: 2.84, in the SS: 5.
Help please.
Thanks
Armando
I noticed a mismatch between the numbers displayed in my Spreadsheet versus those displayed in the Morningstar site.
Then, thinking that the Spreadsheet could be using cache rather than the latest site, I used =smfForceRecalculat
All of those data elements were substantially different. For instance, DE 4880 in the site: 30, in the spreadsheet: 0, 4864 in the site: 2.84, in the SS: 5.
Help please.
Thanks
Armando
Fri Aug 1, 2014 9:06 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Randy Harmelink" rharmelink
Have you also changed your Internet Options so that it always gets a new
copy of a web page?
You didn't mention the ticker symbol, so I couldn't check anything further.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 8:59 AM, armando@... wrote:
> I'm been putting together a spreadsheet to compare ETFs and CEFs using
> Morningstar criteria such as % Total Return YTD (Data Element 4856), % Rank
> in Cat/Ind (DE 4880), YTD Return vs Cat/Ind (DE 4864) and 3-year alpha (DE
> 4679).
>
> I noticed a mismatch between the numbers displayed in my Spreadsheet
> versus those displayed in the Morningstar site.
>
> Then, thinking that the Spreadsheet could be using cache rather than the
> latest site, I used =smfForceRecalculation macro to refresh it. The same
> mismatch remained.
>
> All of those data elements were substantially different. For instance, DE
> 4880 in the site: 30, in the spreadsheet: 0, 4864 in the site: 2.84, in the
> SS: 5.
>
> Help please.
>
copy of a web page?
You didn't mention the ticker symbol, so I couldn't check anything further.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 8:59 AM, armando@... wrote:
> I'm been putting together a spreadsheet to compare ETFs and CEFs using
> Morningstar criteria such as % Total Return YTD (Data Element 4856), % Rank
> in Cat/Ind (DE 4880), YTD Return vs Cat/Ind (DE 4864) and 3-year alpha (DE
> 4679).
>
> I noticed a mismatch between the numbers displayed in my Spreadsheet
> versus those displayed in the Morningstar site.
>
> Then, thinking that the Spreadsheet could be using cache rather than the
> latest site, I used =smfForceRecalculat
> mismatch remained.
>
> All of those data elements were substantially different. For instance, DE
> 4880 in the site: 30, in the spreadsheet: 0, 4864 in the site: 2.84, in the
> SS: 5.
>
> Help please.
>
Hi Randy,
Internet Options >>>> I have not. Your commentary on the site
states to do that for Internet Explorer. Since I use Chrome
instead I did not think that'd be necessary. Also, I thought the
=smfForceRecalculation would always force refresh of cache by
loading the latest page from the site. Please comment.
Ticker symbol >>>> It has happened for all symbols in my
Spreadsheet. The numbers I mentioned in my question were for
HPS.
Thanks a lot.
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Randy Harmelink rharmelink@gmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 1:06 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] MORNINGSTAR DATA ELEMENT MISMATCH
Have you also changed your Internet Options so that it always
gets a new copy of a web page?
You didn't mention the ticker symbol, so I couldn't check
anything further.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 8:59 AM, armando@... wrote:
I'm been putting together a spreadsheet to compare ETFs and CEFs
using Morningstar criteria such as % Total Return YTD (Data
Element 4856), % Rank in Cat/Ind (DE 4880), YTD Return vs Cat/Ind
(DE 4864) and 3-year alpha (DE 4679).
I noticed a mismatch between the numbers displayed in my
Spreadsheet versus those displayed in the Morningstar site.
Then, thinking that the Spreadsheet could be using cache rather
than the latest site, I used =smfForceRecalculation macro to
refresh it. The same mismatch remained.
All of those data elements were substantially different. For
instance, DE 4880 in the site: 30, in the spreadsheet: 0, 4864 in
the site: 2.84, in the SS: 5.
Help please.
Internet Options >>>> I have not. Your commentary on the site
states to do that for Internet Explorer. Since I use Chrome
instead I did not think that'd be necessary. Also, I thought the
=smfForceRecalculation would always force refresh of cache by
loading the latest page from the site. Please comment.
Ticker symbol >>>> It has happened for all symbols in my
Spreadsheet. The numbers I mentioned in my question were for
HPS.
Thanks a lot.
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Randy Harmelink rharmelink@gmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 1:06 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] MORNINGSTAR DATA ELEMENT MISMATCH
Have you also changed your Internet Options so that it always
gets a new copy of a web page?
You didn't mention the ticker symbol, so I couldn't check
anything further.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 8:59 AM, armando@... wrote:
I'm been putting together a spreadsheet to compare ETFs and CEFs
using Morningstar criteria such as % Total Return YTD (Data
Element 4856), % Rank in Cat/Ind (DE 4880), YTD Return vs Cat/Ind
(DE 4864) and 3-year alpha (DE 4679).
I noticed a mismatch between the numbers displayed in my
Spreadsheet versus those displayed in the Morningstar site.
Then, thinking that the Spreadsheet could be using cache rather
than the latest site, I used =smfForceRecalculat
refresh it. The same mismatch remained.
All of those data elements were substantially different. For
instance, DE 4880 in the site: 30, in the spreadsheet: 0, 4864 in
the site: 2.84, in the SS: 5.
Help please.
Fri Aug 1, 2014 9:55 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Randy Harmelink" rharmelink
What browser you use is irrelevant. The add-in uses the MicroSoft Internet
engine to access the Internet, which is the same engine used by Internet
Explorer and EXCEL. The Internet Options determine how that engine
operates, be it IE, EXCEL, or the add-in. They all share cookies and
Temporary Internet Files as a result.
I don't use IE either. I primarily use FireFox, but occasionally use Chrome
as well. If you don't use IE, then your Internet Options are probably set
to the default of using cached web pages.
However, I don't think that is the problem, since I do get 0 for element
#4880 and a 5 for element #4864 -- which is what I see on the web page the
data is extracted from:
http://quicktake.morningstar.com/fundnet/printreport.aspx?symbol=HPS
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:14 AM, armando@... wrote:
>
> Internet Options >>>> I have not. Your commentary on the site states to
> do that for Internet Explorer. Since I use Chrome instead I did not think
> that'd be necessary. Also, I thought the =smfForceRecalculation would
> always force refresh of cache by loading the latest page from the site.
> Please comment.
>
> Ticker symbol >>>> It has happened for all symbols in my Spreadsheet. The
> numbers I mentioned in my question were for HPS.
>
> All of those data elements were substantially different. For instance, DE
> 4880 in the site: 30, in the spreadsheet: 0, 4864 in the site: 2.84, in the
> SS: 5.
>
>
>>
engine to access the Internet, which is the same engine used by Internet
Explorer and EXCEL. The Internet Options determine how that engine
operates, be it IE, EXCEL, or the add-in. They all share cookies and
Temporary Internet Files as a result.
I don't use IE either. I primarily use FireFox, but occasionally use Chrome
as well. If you don't use IE, then your Internet Options are probably set
to the default of using cached web pages.
However, I don't think that is the problem, since I do get 0 for element
#4880 and a 5 for element #4864 -- which is what I see on the web page the
data is extracted from:
http://quicktake.morningstar.com/fundnet/printreport.aspx?symbol=HPS
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:14 AM, armando@... wrote:
>
> Internet Options >>>
> do that for Internet Explorer. Since I use Chrome instead I did not think
> that'd be necessary. Also, I thought the =smfForceRecalculat
> always force refresh of cache by loading the latest page from the site.
> Please comment.
>
> Ticker symbol >>>
> numbers I mentioned in my question were for HPS.
>
> All of those data elements were substantially different. For instance, DE
> 4880 in the site: 30, in the spreadsheet: 0, 4864 in the site: 2.84, in the
> SS: 5.
>
>
>>
That shows how much I know how this things work. Thanks for the
explanation. I'll look for my Chrome options and fix that...
thanks
Question still remains in my mind. Does =smfForceRecalculation
macro forces refresh of the page?
Here is the link to a Portfolio page I used to compared the
numbers. Please let me know if you were able to click on it and
get there since it is a Portfolio page connected to my
Morningstar signon. Take a look specifically at the HPS line.
Thanks
http://portfolio.morningstar.com/Rtport/Reg/MyView.aspx?ViewPage=\
5#285-hidenews
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Randy Harmelink rharmelink@gmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 1:55 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] MORNINGSTAR DATA ELEMENT MISMATCH
What browser you use is irrelevant. The add-in uses the MicroSoft
Internet engine to access the Internet, which is the same engine
used by Internet Explorer and EXCEL. The Internet Options
determine how that engine operates, be it IE, EXCEL, or the
add-in. They all share cookies and Temporary Internet Files as a
result.
I don't use IE either. I primarily use FireFox, but occasionally
use Chrome as well. If you don't use IE, then your Internet
Options are probably set to the default of using cached web
pages.
However, I don't think that is the problem, since I do get 0 for
element #4880 and a 5 for element #4864 -- which is what I see on
the web page the data is extracted from:
http://quicktake.morningstar.com/fundnet/printreport.aspx?symbol=\
HPS
<http://quicktake.morningstar.com/fundnet/printreport.aspx?symbol\
=HPS>
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:14 AM, armando@... wrote:
Internet Options >>>> I have not. Your commentary on the site
states to do that for Internet Explorer. Since I use Chrome
instead I did not think that'd be necessary. Also, I thought the
=smfForceRecalculation would always force refresh of cache by
loading the latest page from the site. Please comment.
Ticker symbol >>>> It has happened for all symbols in my
Spreadsheet. The numbers I mentioned in my question were for
HPS.
All of those data elements were substantially different. For
instance, DE 4880 in the site: 30, in the spreadsheet: 0, 4864 in
the site: 2.84, in the SS: 5.
explanation. I'll look for my Chrome options and fix that...
thanks
Question still remains in my mind. Does =smfForceRecalculation
macro forces refresh of the page?
Here is the link to a Portfolio page I used to compared the
numbers. Please let me know if you were able to click on it and
get there since it is a Portfolio page connected to my
Morningstar signon. Take a look specifically at the HPS line.
Thanks
http://portfolio.morningstar.com/Rtport/Reg/MyView.aspx?ViewPage=\
5#285-hidenews
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Randy Harmelink rharmelink@gmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 1:55 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] MORNINGSTAR DATA ELEMENT MISMATCH
What browser you use is irrelevant. The add-in uses the MicroSoft
Internet engine to access the Internet, which is the same engine
used by Internet Explorer and EXCEL. The Internet Options
determine how that engine operates, be it IE, EXCEL, or the
add-in. They all share cookies and Temporary Internet Files as a
result.
I don't use IE either. I primarily use FireFox, but occasionally
use Chrome as well. If you don't use IE, then your Internet
Options are probably set to the default of using cached web
pages.
However, I don't think that is the problem, since I do get 0 for
element #4880 and a 5 for element #4864 -- which is what I see on
the web page the data is extracted from:
http://quicktake.morningstar.com/fundnet/printreport.aspx?symbol=\
HPS
<http://quicktake.morningstar.com/fundnet/printreport.aspx?symbol\
=HPS>
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:14 AM, armando@... wrote:
Internet Options >>>
states to do that for Internet Explorer. Since I use Chrome
instead I did not think that'd be necessary. Also, I thought the
=smfForceRecalculat
loading the latest page from the site. Please comment.
Ticker symbol >>>
Spreadsheet. The numbers I mentioned in my question were for
HPS.
All of those data elements were substantially different. For
instance, DE 4880 in the site: 30, in the spreadsheet: 0, 4864 in
the site: 2.84, in the SS: 5.
Fri Aug 1, 2014 10:22 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Randy Harmelink" rharmelink
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:05 AM, armando@pipeline.com [smf_addin] <
smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> That shows how much I know how this things work. Thanks for the
> explanation. I'll look for my Chrome options and fix that... thanks
>
No. Chrome options won't do anything. You need to change Internet Options.
It's a Windows setting -- you can find it under the Control Panel.
Question still remains in my mind. Does =smfForceRecalculation macro
> forces refresh of the page?
>
It refreshes the web page WITHIN the add-in, since the add-in extracts data
from a saved copy of a web page. I do it that way so that if you need five
data items from a web page, you don't need to retrieve the web page five
times.
However, the Microsoft Internet engine can also cache pages. The add-in has
no control over that. That is what is controlled by the Internet Options
setting, which should be set to "Always get a new copy of the web page".
> Here is the link to a Portfolio page I used to compared the numbers.
> Please let me know if you were able to click on it and get there since it
> is a Portfolio page connected to my Morningstar signon. Take a look
> specifically at the HPS line. Thanks
>
>
> http://portfolio.morningstar.com/Rtport/Reg/MyView.aspx?ViewPage=5#285-hidenews
>
No. That link brings me to my own portfolio page.
I do see a page with your numbers on it:
http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-total-returns.action?t=HPS
...but you'd need to write your own RCHGetTableCell() functions to grab
data from it. For example, something like:
=RCHGetTableCell("
http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-total-returns.action?t=HPS",5,">Total
Return %","(NAV)")
=RCHGetTableCell("
http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-total-returns.action?t=HPS",2,">Total
Return %","(Price)","(Price)","(Price)")
smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> That shows how much I know how this things work. Thanks for the
> explanation. I'll look for my Chrome options and fix that... thanks
>
No. Chrome options won't do anything. You need to change Internet Options.
It's a Windows setting -- you can find it under the Control Panel.
Question still remains in my mind. Does =smfForceRecalculation macro
> forces refresh of the page?
>
It refreshes the web page WITHIN the add-in, since the add-in extracts data
from a saved copy of a web page. I do it that way so that if you need five
data items from a web page, you don't need to retrieve the web page five
times.
However, the Microsoft Internet engine can also cache pages. The add-in has
no control over that. That is what is controlled by the Internet Options
setting, which should be set to "Always get a new copy of the web page".
> Here is the link to a Portfolio page I used to compared the numbers.
> Please let me know if you were able to click on it and get there since it
> is a Portfolio page connected to my Morningstar signon. Take a look
> specifically at the HPS line. Thanks
>
>
> http://portfolio.morningstar.com/Rtport/Reg/MyView.aspx?ViewPage=5#285-hidenews
>
No. That link brings me to my own portfolio page.
I do see a page with your numbers on it:
http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-total-returns.action?t=HPS
...but you'd need to write your own RCHGetTableCell() functions to grab
data from it. For example, something like:
=RCHGetTableCell("
http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-total-returns.action?t=HPS",5,">Total
Return %","(NAV)")
=RCHGetTableCell("
http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-total-returns.action?t=HPS",2,"
Return %","
Thanks Randy.
I like using Data Elements to both avoid going to the site for
every ticker and having to learn IDs of all fields I want. -----
I've had a past "conversation" with you this.
But, If I am interpreting this correctly, it seems to me that
there is indeed a conflict on the data coming from Morningstar:.
>>> The link in this message shows the same numbers I got in my
Spreadsheet using Data Elements. It seems that Data Elements
grab data from this page.>>> The numbers from the previous
message differ. It seems that link points to another page.>>>
Both set of numbers come from the same source -- Morningstar
Am I wrong?
Thanks a lot,
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Randy Harmelink rharmelink@gmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 2:22 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] MORNINGSTAR DATA ELEMENT MISMATCH
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:05 AM, armando@pipeline.com
<mailto:armando@pipeline.com> [smf_addin]
<smf_addin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> >
wrote:
That shows how much I know how this things work. Thanks for the
explanation. I'll look for my Chrome options and fix that...
thanks
No. Chrome options won't do anything. You need to change Internet
Options. It's a Windows setting -- you can find it under the
Control Panel.
Question still remains in my mind. Does =smfForceRecalculation
macro forces refresh of the page?
It refreshes the web page WITHIN the add-in, since the add-in
extracts data from a saved copy of a web page. I do it that way
so that if you need five data items from a web page, you don't
need to retrieve the web page five times.
However, the Microsoft Internet engine can also cache pages. The
add-in has no control over that. That is what is controlled by
the Internet Options setting, which should be set to "Always get
a new copy of the web page".
Here is the link to a Portfolio page I used to compared the
numbers. Please let me know if you were able to click on it and
get there since it is a Portfolio page connected to my
Morningstar signon. Take a look specifically at the HPS line.
Thanks
http://portfolio.morningstar.com/Rtport/Reg/MyView.aspx?ViewPage=\
5#285-hidenews
<http://portfolio.morningstar.com/Rtport/Reg/MyView.aspx?ViewPage\
=5#285-hidenews>
No. That link brings me to my own portfolio page.
I do see a page with your numbers on it:
http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-total\
-returns.action?t=HPS
<http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-tota\
l-returns.action?t=HPS>
...but you'd need to write your own RCHGetTableCell() functions
to grab data from it. For example, something like:
=RCHGetTableCell("http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/\
cef/trailing-total-returns.action?t=HPS
<http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-tota\
l-returns.action?t=HPS> ",5,">Total Return %","(NAV)")
=RCHGetTableCell("http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/\
cef/trailing-total-returns.action?t=HPS
<http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-tota\
l-returns.action?t=HPS> ",2,">Total Return
%","(Price)","(Price)","(Price)")
I like using Data Elements to both avoid going to the site for
every ticker and having to learn IDs of all fields I want. -----
I've had a past "conversation" with you this.
But, If I am interpreting this correctly, it seems to me that
there is indeed a conflict on the data coming from Morningstar:.
>>> The link in this message shows the same numbers I got in my
Spreadsheet using Data Elements. It seems that Data Elements
grab data from this page.>>> The numbers from the previous
message differ. It seems that link points to another page.>>>
Both set of numbers come from the same source -- Morningstar
Am I wrong?
Thanks a lot,
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Randy Harmelink rharmelink@gmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 2:22 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] MORNINGSTAR DATA ELEMENT MISMATCH
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:05 AM, armando@pipeline.com
<mailto:armando@pipeline.com> [smf_addin]
<smf_addin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> >
wrote:
That shows how much I know how this things work. Thanks for the
explanation. I'll look for my Chrome options and fix that...
thanks
No. Chrome options won't do anything. You need to change Internet
Options. It's a Windows setting -- you can find it under the
Control Panel.
Question still remains in my mind. Does =smfForceRecalculation
macro forces refresh of the page?
It refreshes the web page WITHIN the add-in, since the add-in
extracts data from a saved copy of a web page. I do it that way
so that if you need five data items from a web page, you don't
need to retrieve the web page five times.
However, the Microsoft Internet engine can also cache pages. The
add-in has no control over that. That is what is controlled by
the Internet Options setting, which should be set to "Always get
a new copy of the web page".
Here is the link to a Portfolio page I used to compared the
numbers. Please let me know if you were able to click on it and
get there since it is a Portfolio page connected to my
Morningstar signon. Take a look specifically at the HPS line.
Thanks
http://portfolio.morningstar.com/Rtport/Reg/MyView.aspx?ViewPage=\
5#285-hidenews
<http://portfolio.morningstar.com/Rtport/Reg/MyView.aspx?ViewPage\
=5#285-hidenews>
No. That link brings me to my own portfolio page.
I do see a page with your numbers on it:
http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-total\
-returns.action?t=HPS
<http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-tota\
l-returns.action?t=HPS>
...but you'd need to write your own RCHGetTableCell() functions
to grab data from it. For example, something like:
=RCHGetTableCell("http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/\
cef/trailing-total-returns.action?t=HPS
<http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-tota\
l-returns.action?t=HPS> ",5,">Total Return %","(NAV)")
=RCHGetTableCell("http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/\
cef/trailing-total-returns.action?t=HPS
<http://performance.morningstar.com/Performance/cef/trailing-tota\
l-returns.action?t=HPS> ",2,"
%","
Fri Aug 1, 2014 11:27 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Randy Harmelink" rharmelink
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:43 AM, armando@pipeline.com [smf_addin] <
smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> I like using Data Elements to both avoid going to the site for every
> ticker and having to learn IDs of all fields I want. ----- I've had a past
> "conversation" with you this.
>
And part of the difficulty is that MorningStar has stock pages, ETF pages,
CEF pages, index pages, bond pages, and so forth. And they can overlap.
I'm pretty much U.S. stocks and ETF's, so other things don't get much
attention from me.
Also, the alternative web page I cited? I find I'm getting different
results, even in the browser, when I refresh the web page. Most times, the
NAV ranks aren't there, but sometimes they are.
From my perspective, I think it's actually easier to look up a formula on a
template then to look up an element number on a list. Because you get to
see the context of the formula.
One big advantage of element numbers is that if something changes, changing
the element definition fixes all of the formulas in all workbooks that use
them, instead of needing to make the changes to each workbook. For example,
if the URL changes slightly.
I get a lot of complaints when I obsolete something that no longer exists.
:)
> But, If I am interpreting this correctly, it seems to me that there is
> indeed a conflict on the data coming from Morningstar:.
>
> >>> The link in this message shows the same numbers I got in my
> Spreadsheet using Data Elements. It seems that Data Elements grab data
> from this page.
> >>> The numbers from the previous message differ. It seems that link
> points to another page.
> >>> Both set of numbers come from the same source -- Morningstar
>
> Am I wrong?
>
You are correct. There is a discrepancy. But it may be because the element
numbers are defined for a mutual fund web page and you are doing a CEF. So
I don't know how MorningStar coordinate updates on such things.
smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> I like using Data Elements to both avoid going to the site for every
> ticker and having to learn IDs of all fields I want. ----- I've had a past
> "conversation&
>
And part of the difficulty is that MorningStar has stock pages, ETF pages,
CEF pages, index pages, bond pages, and so forth. And they can overlap.
I'm pretty much U.S. stocks and ETF's, so other things don't get much
attention from me.
Also, the alternative web page I cited? I find I'm getting different
results, even in the browser, when I refresh the web page. Most times, the
NAV ranks aren't there, but sometimes they are.
From my perspective, I think it's actually easier to look up a formula on a
template then to look up an element number on a list. Because you get to
see the context of the formula.
One big advantage of element numbers is that if something changes, changing
the element definition fixes all of the formulas in all workbooks that use
them, instead of needing to make the changes to each workbook. For example,
if the URL changes slightly.
I get a lot of complaints when I obsolete something that no longer exists.
:)
> But, If I am interpreting this correctly, it seems to me that there is
> indeed a conflict on the data coming from Morningstar:
>
> >>> The link in this message shows the same numbers I got in my
> Spreadsheet using Data Elements. It seems that Data Elements grab data
> from this page.
> >>> The numbers from the previous message differ. It seems that link
> points to another page.
> >>> Both set of numbers come from the same source -- Morningstar
>
> Am I wrong?
>
You are correct. There is a discrepancy. But it may be because the element
numbers are defined for a mutual fund web page and you are doing a CEF. So
I don't know how MorningStar coordinate updates on such things.
Thanks Randy.
Indeed, Data Elements is a much more professional way of doing
things; it is a the Data Dictionary. I mean more professional
than fishing for field IDs on strings that may no longer, may
even no longer exist, or whose syntax have changed completely.
Unfortunately the sources to build up the Data Dictionary are not
as reliable (or at least as consistent) as they should. Syntax
of the source of data elements may change overtime (hence the
"obsoletes"); or worse their semantic may have changed (their
formulae) even when their syntax have not changed (hence the
"obsoletes" again, but in this case the obsolescence may not be
caught).
It is a challenge and I congratulate you for developing all this.
As a suggestion, perhaps refining Morningstar Data Elements to
account for ETFs and CEFs would be worthwhile.
By the way, I don't do Mutual Funds, but do ETFs and CEFs. The
discrepancies we have been talking about occur for ETFs as well.
It was just happenstance that we used HPS (a CEF) for an example.
My spreadsheet shows discrepancies for ETFs as well.
All the best and thanks again.
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Randy Harmelink rharmelink@gmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 3:27 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] MORNINGSTAR DATA ELEMENT MISMATCH
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:43 AM, armando@pipeline.com
<mailto:armando@pipeline.com> [smf_addin]
<smf_addin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> >
wrote:
I like using Data Elements to both avoid going to the site for
every ticker and having to learn IDs of all fields I want. -----
I've had a past "conversation" with you this.
And part of the difficulty is that MorningStar has stock pages,
ETF pages, CEF pages, index pages, bond pages, and so forth. And
they can overlap.
I'm pretty much U.S. stocks and ETF's, so other things don't get
much attention from me.
Also, the alternative web page I cited? I find I'm getting
different results, even in the browser, when I refresh the web
page. Most times, the NAV ranks aren't there, but sometimes they
are.
From my perspective, I think it's actually easier to look up a
formula on a template then to look up an element number on a
list. Because you get to see the context of the formula.
One big advantage of element numbers is that if something
changes, changing the element definition fixes all of the
formulas in all workbooks that use them, instead of needing to
make the changes to each workbook. For example, if the URL
changes slightly.
I get a lot of complaints when I obsolete something that no
longer exists. :)
But, If I am interpreting this correctly, it seems to me that
there is indeed a conflict on the data coming from Morningstar:.
>>> The link in this message shows the same numbers I got in my
Spreadsheet using Data Elements. It seems that Data Elements
grab data from this page.>>> The numbers from the previous
message differ. It seems that link points to another page. >>>
Both set of numbers come from the same source -- Morningstar
Am I wrong?
You are correct. There is a discrepancy. But it may be because
the element numbers are defined for a mutual fund web page and
you are doing a CEF. So I don't know how MorningStar coordinate
updates on such things.
Indeed, Data Elements is a much more professional way of doing
things; it is a the Data Dictionary. I mean more professional
than fishing for field IDs on strings that may no longer, may
even no longer exist, or whose syntax have changed completely.
Unfortunately the sources to build up the Data Dictionary are not
as reliable (or at least as consistent) as they should. Syntax
of the source of data elements may change overtime (hence the
"obsoletes"); or worse their semantic may have changed (their
formulae) even when their syntax have not changed (hence the
"obsoletes" again, but in this case the obsolescence may not be
caught).
It is a challenge and I congratulate you for developing all this.
As a suggestion, perhaps refining Morningstar Data Elements to
account for ETFs and CEFs would be worthwhile.
By the way, I don't do Mutual Funds, but do ETFs and CEFs. The
discrepancies we have been talking about occur for ETFs as well.
It was just happenstance that we used HPS (a CEF) for an example.
My spreadsheet shows discrepancies for ETFs as well.
All the best and thanks again.
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Randy Harmelink rharmelink@gmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 3:27 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] MORNINGSTAR DATA ELEMENT MISMATCH
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:43 AM, armando@pipeline.com
<mailto:armando@pipeline.com> [smf_addin]
<smf_addin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> >
wrote:
I like using Data Elements to both avoid going to the site for
every ticker and having to learn IDs of all fields I want. -----
I've had a past "conversation&
And part of the difficulty is that MorningStar has stock pages,
ETF pages, CEF pages, index pages, bond pages, and so forth. And
they can overlap.
I'm pretty much U.S. stocks and ETF's, so other things don't get
much attention from me.
Also, the alternative web page I cited? I find I'm getting
different results, even in the browser, when I refresh the web
page. Most times, the NAV ranks aren't there, but sometimes they
are.
From my perspective, I think it's actually easier to look up a
formula on a template then to look up an element number on a
list. Because you get to see the context of the formula.
One big advantage of element numbers is that if something
changes, changing the element definition fixes all of the
formulas in all workbooks that use them, instead of needing to
make the changes to each workbook. For example, if the URL
changes slightly.
I get a lot of complaints when I obsolete something that no
longer exists. :)
But, If I am interpreting this correctly, it seems to me that
there is indeed a conflict on the data coming from Morningstar:
>>> The link in this message shows the same numbers I got in my
Spreadsheet using Data Elements. It seems that Data Elements
grab data from this page.>>
message differ. It seems that link points to another page. >>>
Both set of numbers come from the same source -- Morningstar
Am I wrong?
You are correct. There is a discrepancy. But it may be because
the element numbers are defined for a mutual fund web page and
you are doing a CEF. So I don't know how MorningStar coordinate
updates on such things.
Fri Aug 1, 2014 12:02 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Randy Harmelink" rharmelink
One reason for some of the discrepancies is that MorningStar changed their
web site quite a bit a few years ago, going to dynamically created web
pages. They no longer contain the data, so the add-in can't extract data
from them. However, I was able to find web pages that contain the data,
that they apparently use to build the dynamic web pages. But there can be
dozens of them for each type of equity.
Many element definitions still use the old "print" pages that MorningStar
used to have links to. They no longer do. So I'm not sure how well they
maintain the data on those "print" pages. I'm sure they will obsolete them
at some point. One reason I used the "print" page is that it contained all
of the data. So only one web page needed to be accessed per equity.
But if I go to the new static web pages, where there may be dozens of web
pages, getting numerous data items may be VERY slow, since it now would
need to get 10 or 20 web pages per ticker symbol instead of the single one
for the "print" page. It will also significantly reduce the number of
ticker symbols that can be used in a session, since the add-in is only set
up to store 1000 web pages per session.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:51 AM, armando@pipeline.com [smf_addin] <
smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> As a suggestion, perhaps refining Morningstar Data Elements to account for
> ETFs and CEFs would be worthwhile.
>
> By the way, I don't do Mutual Funds, but do ETFs and CEFs. The
> discrepancies we have been talking about occur for ETFs as well. It was
> just happenstance that we used HPS (a CEF) for an example. My spreadsheet
> shows discrepancies for ETFs as well.
>
>
web site quite a bit a few years ago, going to dynamically created web
pages. They no longer contain the data, so the add-in can't extract data
from them. However, I was able to find web pages that contain the data,
that they apparently use to build the dynamic web pages. But there can be
dozens of them for each type of equity.
Many element definitions still use the old "print" pages that MorningStar
used to have links to. They no longer do. So I'm not sure how well they
maintain the data on those "print" pages. I'm sure they will obsolete them
at some point. One reason I used the "print" page is that it contained all
of the data. So only one web page needed to be accessed per equity.
But if I go to the new static web pages, where there may be dozens of web
pages, getting numerous data items may be VERY slow, since it now would
need to get 10 or 20 web pages per ticker symbol instead of the single one
for the "print" page. It will also significantly reduce the number of
ticker symbols that can be used in a session, since the add-in is only set
up to store 1000 web pages per session.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:51 AM, armando@pipeline.com [smf_addin] <
smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> As a suggestion, perhaps refining Morningstar Data Elements to account for
> ETFs and CEFs would be worthwhile.
>
> By the way, I don't do Mutual Funds, but do ETFs and CEFs. The
> discrepancies we have been talking about occur for ETFs as well. It was
> just happenstance that we used HPS (a CEF) for an example. My spreadsheet
> shows discrepancies for ETFs as well.
>
>
Thanks Randy...
I see ......
All the best
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Randy Harmelink rharmelink@gmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 3:02 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] MORNINGSTAR DATA ELEMENT MISMATCH
One reason for some of the discrepancies is that MorningStar
changed their web site quite a bit a few years ago, going to
dynamically created web pages. They no longer contain the data,
so the add-in can't extract data from them. However, I was able
to find web pages that contain the data, that they apparently use
to build the dynamic web pages. But there can be dozens of them
for each type of equity.
Many element definitions still use the old "print" pages that
MorningStar used to have links to. They no longer do. So I'm not
sure how well they maintain the data on those "print" pages. I'm
sure they will obsolete them at some point. One reason I used the
"print" page is that it contained all of the data. So only one
web page needed to be accessed per equity.
But if I go to the new static web pages, where there may be
dozens of web pages, getting numerous data items may be VERY
slow, since it now would need to get 10 or 20 web pages per
ticker symbol instead of the single one for the "print" page. It
will also significantly reduce the number of ticker symbols that
can be used in a session, since the add-in is only set up to
store 1000 web pages per session.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:51 AM, armando@pipeline.com
<mailto:armando@pipeline.com> [smf_addin]
<smf_addin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> >
wrote:
As a suggestion, perhaps refining Morningstar Data Elements to
account for ETFs and CEFs would be worthwhile.
By the way, I don't do Mutual Funds, but do ETFs and CEFs. The
discrepancies we have been talking about occur for ETFs as well.
It was just happenstance that we used HPS (a CEF) for an example.
My spreadsheet shows discrepancies for ETFs as well.
I see ......
All the best
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Randy Harmelink rharmelink@gmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 3:02 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] MORNINGSTAR DATA ELEMENT MISMATCH
One reason for some of the discrepancies is that MorningStar
changed their web site quite a bit a few years ago, going to
dynamically created web pages. They no longer contain the data,
so the add-in can't extract data from them. However, I was able
to find web pages that contain the data, that they apparently use
to build the dynamic web pages. But there can be dozens of them
for each type of equity.
Many element definitions still use the old "print" pages that
MorningStar used to have links to. They no longer do. So I'm not
sure how well they maintain the data on those "print" pages. I'm
sure they will obsolete them at some point. One reason I used the
"print" page is that it contained all of the data. So only one
web page needed to be accessed per equity.
But if I go to the new static web pages, where there may be
dozens of web pages, getting numerous data items may be VERY
slow, since it now would need to get 10 or 20 web pages per
ticker symbol instead of the single one for the "print" page. It
will also significantly reduce the number of ticker symbols that
can be used in a session, since the add-in is only set up to
store 1000 web pages per session.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:51 AM, armando@pipeline.com
<mailto:armando@pipeline.com> [smf_addin]
<smf_addin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:smf_addin@yahoogroups.com> >
wrote:
As a suggestion, perhaps refining Morningstar Data Elements to
account for ETFs and CEFs would be worthwhile.
By the way, I don't do Mutual Funds, but do ETFs and CEFs. The
discrepancies we have been talking about occur for ETFs as well.
It was just happenstance that we used HPS (a CEF) for an example.
My spreadsheet shows discrepancies for ETFs as well.
Fri Aug 1, 2014 11:20 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Dave Charlaff" copthornelabs
Randy,
I searched the list of element definitions but could not find the definition
for Zacks Rank.
I seem to recall you wrote a function to extract the Zacks rank previously.
Can you point me at it please, or show me how to modify the Zacks
recommendation element to get the Rank.
Thx
Dave C.
I searched the list of element definitions but could not find the definition
for Zacks Rank.
I seem to recall you wrote a function to extract the Zacks rank previously.
Can you point me at it please, or show me how to modify the Zacks
recommendation element to get the Rank.
Thx
Dave C.
Dave,
I've been using 848.
Cheers
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Charlaff davecharlaff@hotmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 3:20 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [smf_addin] Zacks Rank
Randy,
I searched the list of element definitions but could not find the
definition for Zacks Rank.
I seem to recall you wrote a function to extract the Zacks rank
previously.
Can you point me at it please, or show me how to modify the Zacks
recommendation element to get the Rank.
Thx
Dave C.
I've been using 848.
Cheers
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Charlaff davecharlaff@hotmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 3:20 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [smf_addin] Zacks Rank
Randy,
I searched the list of element definitions but could not find the
definition for Zacks Rank.
I seem to recall you wrote a function to extract the Zacks rank
previously.
Can you point me at it please, or show me how to modify the Zacks
recommendation element to get the Rank.
Thx
Dave C.
Fri Aug 1, 2014 12:10 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Dave Charlaff" copthornelabs
Thank you. I feel foolish… I just found the element number in the list.
From: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com [mailto:smf_addin@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 2:22 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] Zacks Rank
Dave,
I've been using 848.
Cheers
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Charlaff davecharlaff@hotmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 3:20 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [smf_addin] Zacks Rank
Randy,
I searched the list of element definitions but could not find the definition for Zacks Rank.
I seem to recall you wrote a function to extract the Zacks rank previously.
Can you point me at it please, or show me how to modify the Zacks recommendation element to get the Rank.
Thx
Dave C.
From: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com [mailto:smf_addin@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 2:22 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [smf_addin] Zacks Rank
Dave,
I've been using 848.
Cheers
Armando
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Charlaff davecharlaff@hotmail.com [smf_addin]"
Sent: Aug 1, 2014 3:20 PM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [smf_addin] Zacks Rank
Randy,
I searched the list of element definitions but could not find the definition for Zacks Rank.
I seem to recall you wrote a function to extract the Zacks rank previously.
Can you point me at it please, or show me how to modify the Zacks recommendation element to get the Rank.
Thx
Dave C.
For the Add-in, Documentation, Templates, Tips and FAQs, visit http://ogres-crypt.com/SMF
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