Rabu, 21 Desember 2011

[smf_addin] Digest Number 2053

Messages In This Digest (11 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Re: Legal Issue - discussed only once before

Posted by: "msimmsx" marksimms@verizon.net   msimmsx

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:25 am (PST)



I went on the Avvo legal website and posted this issue. One lawyer pointed me to another case and then she said that it appeared that screen-scraping indeed could violate some statute related to Intellectual Property.
However, I pointed out: the key difference between that case and Yahoo Finance: Credentials.
None required for Yahoo; in her case, there was a former registration and sign-on process. HUGE difference. Be careful with lawyers...some apply generalizations to complex issues. Stay away from those guys.

> If Randy was extracting data and repackaging that on his own website and
> offering that data for sale, well, that's a bit different. But, that isn't
> at all what he is doing. Heck, he isn't even charging for SMF (even though
> he could).
>
> Signed:
> Old software entrepreneur and executive
>

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Messages in this topic (9)
1b.

Re: Legal Issue - discussed only once before

Posted by: "Mike McQuaid" mikemcq802@yahoo.com   mikemcq802

Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:22 am (PST)



It is not possible to screen-scrape from sites that require a signon without
being signed on - you presented an impossible scenario. Randy's addin will
work on websites that require a sign-on as long as you are registered and
signed-on and it is perfectly reasonable to do so.

Randy's technology only allows you to "see" what you can physically see with
your eyes - on *any* website - not just Yahoo. (If you are blind, there is
other software which does something similar to Randy's which can convert the
info and read it out loud or transcribe it to Braille ... but I digress).

What I was describing in my snip below was when someone takes the data from
Yahoo or another site and actually puts the data on their own site and
resells it or otherwise profits from it (through ads or what-not). This is
not what Randy does. Anyone who does that could well be subject to legal
trouble.

This isn't a particularly complicated area of software law but can be
confusing for a novice. I suggest you leave it alone.

_____

From: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com [mailto:smf_addin@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of msimmsx
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:26 AM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [smf_addin] Re: Legal Issue - discussed only once before

I went on the Avvo legal website and posted this issue. One lawyer pointed
me to another case and then she said that it appeared that screen-scraping
indeed could violate some statute related to Intellectual Property.
However, I pointed out: the key difference between that case and Yahoo
Finance: Credentials.
None required for Yahoo; in her case, there was a former registration and
sign-on process. HUGE difference. Be careful with lawyers...some apply
generalizations to complex issues. Stay away from those guys.

> If Randy was extracting data and repackaging that on his own website and
> offering that data for sale, well, that's a bit different. But, that isn't
> at all what he is doing. Heck, he isn't even charging for SMF (even though
> he could).
>
> Signed:
> Old software entrepreneur and executive
>

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Messages in this topic (9)
1c.

Re: Legal Issue - discussed only once before

Posted by: "msimmsx" marksimms@verizon.net   msimmsx

Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:47 am (PST)



> It is not possible to screen-scrape from sites that require a signon without being signed on - you presented an impossible scenario.
That's not what I said. I said there was a case the lawyer presented and in that case they found "someone" had given away a userid and password to a third party. That party logged-in and used a screen scraper to "steal" the data exposed on the proprietary website.
Thus the lawsuit.

> What I was describing in my snip below was when someone takes the data from Yahoo or another site and actually puts the data on their own site and resells it or otherwise profits from it (through ads or what-not). This is not what Randy does. Anyone who does that could well be subject to legal trouble.
I totally agree and that's implied in the terms of service agreement (TOS) that everyone IMPLICITLY must follow.

> This isn't a particularly complicated area of software law but can be confusing for a novice. I suggest you leave it alone.

First of all, never tell me what I can do and what I cannot do. This is not 1940's Germany. Second of all, be aware that lawyers can make the smallest cases incredibly complex and convoluted (to their benefit, natch).
The attorney that made a similar statement about the fact that only SHE had knowledge to handle the case was made to look foolish when I started to thrown around GIF/PNG formats and DHTML. All of these concepts are highly relevant to this type of case. Bottomline: She had no clue. I told her flat-out that she could not argue this case alone....that a technologist was required. She shut-up after that. This was after I read the entire 50 page complaint which was obviously written without review by someone knowledgeable in web tech.

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Messages in this topic (9)
1d.

Re: Legal Issue - discussed only once before

Posted by: "Mike McQuaid" mikemcq802@yahoo.com   mikemcq802

Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:51 am (PST)



Yes, theft is wrong irrespective of the tools used to perform it.

I didn't tell you what to do. I suggested you quit wasting your time on a
nothing issue. Go ahead and keep churning if that's your desire but I'm
done with this topic.

_____

From: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com [mailto:smf_addin@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of msimmsx
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:47 AM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [smf_addin] Re: Legal Issue - discussed only once before

> It is not possible to screen-scrape from sites that require a signon
without being signed on - you presented an impossible scenario.
That's not what I said. I said there was a case the lawyer presented and in
that case they found "someone" had given away a userid and password to a
third party. That party logged-in and used a screen scraper to "steal" the
data exposed on the proprietary website.
Thus the lawsuit.

> What I was describing in my snip below was when someone takes the data
from Yahoo or another site and actually puts the data on their own site and
resells it or otherwise profits from it (through ads or what-not). This is
not what Randy does. Anyone who does that could well be subject to legal
trouble.
I totally agree and that's implied in the terms of service agreement (TOS)
that everyone IMPLICITLY must follow.

> This isn't a particularly complicated area of software law but can be
confusing for a novice. I suggest you leave it alone.

First of all, never tell me what I can do and what I cannot do. This is not
1940's Germany. Second of all, be aware that lawyers can make the smallest
cases incredibly complex and convoluted (to their benefit, natch).
The attorney that made a similar statement about the fact that only SHE had
knowledge to handle the case was made to look foolish when I started to
thrown around GIF/PNG formats and DHTML. All of these concepts are highly
relevant to this type of case. Bottomline: She had no clue. I told her
flat-out that she could not argue this case alone....that a technologist was
required. She shut-up after that. This was after I read the entire 50 page
complaint which was obviously written without review by someone
knowledgeable in web tech.

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Messages in this topic (9)
1e.

Re: Legal Issue - discussed only once before

Posted by: "dguillett1" dguillett1@gmail.com   donaldb36

Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:53 am (PST)



She must have been very patient to sit and listen while you
"read the entire 50 page complaint"

Don Guillett
SalesAid Software
dguillett1@gmail.com

From: msimmsx
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:47 AM
To: smf_addin@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [smf_addin] Re: Legal Issue - discussed only once before

> It is not possible to screen-scrape from sites that require a signon without being signed on - you presented an impossible scenario.
That's not what I said. I said there was a case the lawyer presented and in that case they found "someone" had given away a userid and password to a third party. That party logged-in and used a screen scraper to "steal" the data exposed on the proprietary website.
Thus the lawsuit.

> What I was describing in my snip below was when someone takes the data from Yahoo or another site and actually puts the data on their own site and resells it or otherwise profits from it (through ads or what-not). This is not what Randy does. Anyone who does that could well be subject to legal trouble.
I totally agree and that's implied in the terms of service agreement (TOS) that everyone IMPLICITLY must follow.

> This isn't a particularly complicated area of software law but can be confusing for a novice. I suggest you leave it alone.

First of all, never tell me what I can do and what I cannot do. This is not 1940's Germany. Second of all, be aware that lawyers can make the smallest cases incredibly complex and convoluted (to their benefit, natch).
The attorney that made a similar statement about the fact that only SHE had knowledge to handle the case was made to look foolish when I started to thrown around GIF/PNG formats and DHTML. All of these concepts are highly relevant to this type of case. Bottomline: She had no clue. I told her flat-out that she could not argue this case alone....that a technologist was required. She shut-up after that. This was after I read the entire 50 page complaint which was obviously written without review by someone knowledgeable in web tech.

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Messages in this topic (9)
2a.

Re: Reuters data using RCHGetElementNumber: You are not Alone.

Posted by: "kryp33" kryp33@yahoo.com   kryp33

Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:31 pm (PST)





Hi All,
I also have some problem with Reuters fields. I am only playing with this nice add-in for a couple of hours so I may miss something, but here is what I found.

I am doing a simple call: RCHGetElementNumber(C$1,13626)
Through the debugger I confirmed that XLA make the url request correctly and Reuters web site send a correct response back.

Something is happening when the response is parsed. In particular, the parser is looking for the field ">Valuation Ratios<" which specified in smf-elements-5.txt file. (Parameter #6) But now in Reuters page this field is split in two lines, like
<div class="moduleHeader">
<h3>
Valuation Ratios</h3>
</div>
And parser cannot find it. I made a simple experiment and manually changed the smf-elements-5.txt file replacing ">Valuation Ratios<" to "Valuation Ratios". I just removed angle brackets and the whole thing start to work for other fields too.

Since I do not have much of experience with this add-on I cannot predict any side effects of this hack. So let's hope that somebody who more familiar with the module modGetElementNumber will take a look at it.
Thanks,
Sergey

--- In smf_addin@yahoogroups.com, "jrgeico" <rerren.jeroen@...> wrote:
>
> Hye guys,
>
> since I discovered this site a few weeks back I have occupied myself with reading VBA books (unfortunately i had to start with the one for dummies :D) and trying to learn excel.
>
> Recently I drew out my "own" approach to pricing stocks and I am now trying to assemble sheets that are available here together with my own input in terms of ratios etc..
>
> Unfortunately, I am experiencing the same problem as a few other users with loading data from Reuters. As I favor a proactive approach I tried to solve this problem on my own and used the following site to download Reuters data into my excel file:
>
> http://www.aaii.com/computerized-investing/article/using-excel-web-queries-to-retrieve-data.mobile#fig5
>
> I thought that if I was able to enable this web query the cookie (and other) problems would be solved. I managed to download the financial statement for Google (I just followed the example) but the connection did not make the RCHGetElementNumber work....
>
> Also, when I try to edit my query to provide input for Statement, Period and ticker like this:
>
> WEB
> 1
> http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/incomeStatement/detail?perType=["Statement", "Enter INC, BAL, or CAS"]&perType=["Period", "Enter Ann or INT"]&symbol=["symbol", "Enter ticker symbol"]
>
> Selection=AllTables
> Formatting=None
> PreFormattedTextToColumns=True
> ConsecutiveDelimitersAsOne=True
> SingleBlockTextImport=False
> DisableDateRecognition=False
> DisableRedirections=False
> "
>
> the cookie is displayed in excel as "broken" or not the right file type...
>
> Anyone who can help me with this?
>
> Summary:
>
> Able to download Reuters data using web query
> Not able to download using RCHGetElementNumber number
>
> I am operating on Excel 2010. If additional information is needed please do ask :)
>
> Thanks
>

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Messages in this topic (13)
2b.

Re: Reuters data using RCHGetElementNumber: You are not Alone.

Posted by: "Randy Harmelink" rharmelink@gmail.com   rharmelink

Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:47 pm (PST)



Try the updated element definitions file from the "Works in Progress"
folder of the files area of the group.

One of the reasons I externalized the element definitions is so that they
would be easier to update -- either by me or others. So what you did was
not necessarily a "hack".

My solution was to change the search string to "Valuation Ratios<". I
typically try to avoid straight text search strings, because they can
easily show up other places on the web page -- such as a meta tag
describing the things that are on the web page.

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:20 PM, kryp33 <kryp33@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> I also have some problem with Reuters fields. I am only playing with this
> nice add-in for a couple of hours so I may miss something, but here is what
> I found.
>
> I am doing a simple call: RCHGetElementNumber(C$1,13626)
> Through the debugger I confirmed that XLA make the url request correctly
> and Reuters web site send a correct response back.
>
> Something is happening when the response is parsed. In particular, the
> parser is looking for the field ">Valuation Ratios<" which specified in
> smf-elements-5.txt file. (Parameter #6) But now in Reuters page this field
> is split in two lines, like
> <div class="moduleHeader">
> <h3>
> Valuation Ratios</h3>
> </div>
> And parser cannot find it. I made a simple experiment and manually changed
> the smf-elements-5.txt file replacing ">Valuation Ratios<" to "Valuation
> Ratios". I just removed angle brackets and the whole thing start to work
> for other fields too.
>
> Since I do not have much of experience with this add-on I cannot predict
> any side effects of this hack. So let's hope that somebody who more
> familiar with the module modGetElementNumber will take a look at it.
>
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Messages in this topic (13)
2c.

Re: Reuters data using RCHGetElementNumber: You are not Alone.

Posted by: "kryp33" kryp33@yahoo.com   kryp33

Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:10 pm (PST)





Thank you Randy!
Files/WorkInProgress works like a charm for Reuters. I found there changes you told me about. And you are right to keep the right bracket in parsing token is much safer then to have a pure text alone.

Thanks again for your fast and helpful response.
Regards,
Sergey

--- In smf_addin@yahoogroups.com, Randy Harmelink <rharmelink@...> wrote:
>
> Try the updated element definitions file from the "Works in Progress"
> folder of the files area of the group.
>
> One of the reasons I externalized the element definitions is so that they
> would be easier to update -- either by me or others. So what you did was
> not necessarily a "hack".
>
> My solution was to change the search string to "Valuation Ratios<". I
> typically try to avoid straight text search strings, because they can
> easily show up other places on the web page -- such as a meta tag
> describing the things that are on the web page.
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:20 PM, kryp33 <kryp33@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > I also have some problem with Reuters fields. I am only playing with this
> > nice add-in for a couple of hours so I may miss something, but here is what
> > I found.
> >
> > I am doing a simple call: RCHGetElementNumber(C$1,13626)
> > Through the debugger I confirmed that XLA make the url request correctly
> > and Reuters web site send a correct response back.
> >
> > Something is happening when the response is parsed. In particular, the
> > parser is looking for the field ">Valuation Ratios<" which specified in
> > smf-elements-5.txt file. (Parameter #6) But now in Reuters page this field
> > is split in two lines, like
> > <div class="moduleHeader">
> > <h3>
> > Valuation Ratios</h3>
> > </div>
> > And parser cannot find it. I made a simple experiment and manually changed
> > the smf-elements-5.txt file replacing ">Valuation Ratios<" to "Valuation
> > Ratios". I just removed angle brackets and the whole thing start to work
> > for other fields too.
> >
> > Since I do not have much of experience with this add-on I cannot predict
> > any side effects of this hack. So let's hope that somebody who more
> > familiar with the module modGetElementNumber will take a look at it.
> >
>

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Messages in this topic (13)
3a.

ADVFN

Posted by: "newengwongpeggy" tong82@gmail.com   newengwongpeggy

Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:38 pm (PST)



Hi randy,

I use to have this formula:

=smfGetADVFNElement("nyse:nke","q",COLUMNS($G:G),">"&$DN2&"<",,"--")

and it works good.

But recently it stops working.

can you pls help.

thx
Antonio

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Messages in this topic (14)
3b.

Re: ADVFN

Posted by: "Randy Harmelink" rharmelink@gmail.com   rharmelink

Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:42 pm (PST)



Without more specific details, your formula appears to work here for what I
tried -- have you tried the AdvFN potential problem solution pointed to in
the "Links" area of the group?

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 6:38 PM, newengwongpeggy <tong82@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I use to have this formula:
>
>
> =smfGetADVFNElement("nyse:nke","q",COLUMNS($G:G),">"&$DN2&"<",,"--")
>
> and it works good.
>
> But recently it stops working.
>
> can you pls help.
>
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Messages in this topic (14)
4.

Dividend Dates ?

Posted by: "Randy Harmelink" rharmelink@gmail.com   rharmelink

Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:56 pm (PST)



"chk" is generated anew for each browser session.

Do a search on the message archives and you should find a discussion on the
process.

PS: Please direct SMF queries to the Yahoo group. I just barely noticed
your email in my SPAM folder, and almost deleted it without opening it.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 5:35 AM, JCHyjun <JCHyjun@... <JCHyjun@aol.com>>wrote:

>
> I think http://dividendinvestor.com/ has free and subscribers info.
> Fortunately information about Dividend dates (Declaration Date, Ex Date,
> Record Date and Pay Date) and amount are free, see e.g. for XOM
>
> http://www.dividendinvestor.com/?chk=903b01324296907&symbol=xom
>
> I tried to use
>
> =+RCHGetTableCell("
> http://www.dividendinvestor.com/?chk=903b01324296907&symbol="&A1,1,B1)
>
> where A1 is field for symbol and B1 is field for info type (like Pay Date)
> or

=+RCHGetTableCell("
> http://www.dividendinvestor.com/?chk=903b01324296907&symbol="&A1,1,"Dividend
> Pay Date")
>
> and got incorrect info.
>
> How to fix it?
>
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